NASA-UAP-D008, Apollo 12 Medical Debriefing - Tape 12, 1969

Feel it a bit there . Uh , listen , we

read this paragraph in here about these

quotes coronal discharges that you guys

were seeing and , and that , that

completely stops us . Tell , tell us

what , how this came about and who ,

who talked to you about it and what and

what you saw . We reported it on uh

somebody reported it on one of the

earlier flights and uh . Some guy up ,

I got the letter , the paperwork

somewhere , and they shipped it down to

me at the Cape about two things where

the VHF radio noises , which could be

discharges from someplace in space ,

and the other one where , my father was

on flight , he's got airport seeing

flashes in a spacecraft at night with

their eyes closed or with their eyes

closed . They , they , they noticed

them when they were awake at night and

the spacecraft was dark , and they

thought they were in a spacecraft .

Yeah . But , uh , whoever this guy was

said no , that's a perfectly known

phenomenon you can get discharged

across your eye from gamma rays or

something . So he had a bunch of things ,

would we . Close our eyes and face the

moon , you know , when we were orbiting

it because it would be more , you'd get

less discharges facing the moon than

away from it . You don't have to be

anywhere near the moon or anywhere .

The first night out , bing , bing . And

if you , if you keep your eyes closed

and you're awake down there and it's

dark and you think about it , when it

happens , you can put your eye , you

can , you can sit down and it's one eye .

It , it's not a discharge that you see

one eye or the other eye , and you can

in both eyes . You really see it with

see what kind it is . We had two kinds .

Gets the particle either strike the

eyeball perpendicular or or it

discharges parallel and we'd get either

a a flash like that or we'd get a

streak . And uh and I'm the only people

that I know is I got . I And I for

some reason got it more with my left

eye than my right eye , but I could

tell which eye it was when I was

concentrating on it . I'm trying to

tell you the reason he did it because

his , where he slept was always on the

left side of the spacecraft . That I

got switched on the crosser and I

caught all the right ones . Yeah .

They should have protected you , They

should have all , they should have

picked them all up . Surprising I'm

surprised you didn't hear about this

because you were asked to specifically

experiment with this thing . 2 pages in

the place in the water and we didn't

bother because we were . Oh , there's a

paper right now on the very exact thing ,

a new phenomenon that came out of a

letter . Buzz and Neil talked about

this . I , I remember their

conversation about it . They thought it

was something , you know , penetrating

the spacecraft . What Pete described is

the exact phenomenon that all three of

us saw . You'd see a light , you know ,

just a flash out there or sometimes

it'd be a a streak . And I saw them in

both eyes , either eye , and , uh , I

can't remember if there was one that

was more predominant than the other ,

but I agree with Pete . It's a

phenomenon that you're not seeing with

both eyes . It's not something external

to you . It's something that's inside

or coming across you . Apparently they

know about it . Apparently it's a known

known phenomenon . Well , we've been

looking for cosmic rays , you know ,

cosmic ray strikes and heavy , heavy

particles , heavy nuclei that are that

go through . You know , we started at

clear back in Mercury taking

photographs of the retina to see if you

and stuff . We never could find any in

could see the streaks across the retina

there . And so we stopped that up early

in the , well by the end of the . Right .

Your eye is what , the fastest healer

on your body , and if it's doing

anything , you're never going to see it .

they're ever going to see it is if you

By the time you get a guy back , all

photographed it right after a particle

went by . Well , probably what , what

just a single cell and , uh , yeah ,

it's doing anyway is probably hitting

that's all I'd have to do ,

particularly to make this flash , you

know , you hit a single cell . I saw

one night because I was looking at the

MVP a handrail up above and one right

right along . I don't know where it

went . It appeared , you know , right

straight along that handrail for about

that , that distance . And I just got

to be looking at that , and now you can

almost see him at will . That's right

your eyes . What if they don't wanna

where you just lie there and you close

see one you open one eye and judges

already see it . You didn't believe it

at first that we thought it was right .

You know , hey , I've been sitting

pretty well . On the , uh

You see that . They said in the middle

of the mission , you'd wake up at night

and you'd say , well , I think I ought

to see , Those ladies come about one

minute .

Uh , let , let me ask you one more

question about heart . Uh , oh , here ,

were , were these random , uh ,

distribution of these , uh , or , or

did they seem to be fairly horizontal ?

OK , uh , were these , were these

things random or did they all seem to

be in one direction ? Like were they

always horizontal or were they at

random ? They could be at any kind of

angle . But the streaks I saw one I saw .

I was gonna say that's interesting .

Mine , it seemed to me I had the

impression that they were always

roughly in the same place and mine were

horizontal . The horizontal streaks

were always , if I knew where I was

looking , it always seemed like the

horizontal streak was a little bit

above the center and it always seemed

to me it went from right to left . No

matter which eye it was The , uh , the ,

uh , discharges were more towards the

center and , and it would be just a ,

it was just like a pinpoint of light .

They closed it yet . Like somebody was

flashing a light at you . That's right .

Generally not too big a light , you

know . Yeah . It wouldn't fill your

very small lot . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .

It's a , it's an important .

Is that about the same for both of you ?

Is that the same , uh , reaction you

had and Al , the way he described it ?

What's that about 30 degrees of

horizontal , but they were kind of ,

see , I didn't notice them from the

right or left . That's pretty

interesting . Yeah , but about the same ,

they seem to appear about the same

place . Yeah , I know .

I . The horizontal ones that I saw were

generally above eye level was generally

high . Now , I , I don't know . I can't

include any other . I can't remember .

I just don't remember any of them being

down in the lower part of the vision .

Well , I , I remember you seeing that

telling you about seeing them . With

his eyes open and , and other

things that he centered his eye on the

lights on the instrument panel . What I

used to notice on the boat was when I

it was pitch black down there in the

was down there in that sleeping bag ,

hole . It wouldn't make any difference

whether my eyes were open or closed . I

time that way , say for a half an hour .

could lay there for , I used to kill

Either open them or close them and wait ,

and sure enough , after a while , you'd

get one . And then I'd sit there for a

while and say , OK , was it in the left

while to sort it out , and , uh , but

eye or the right eye ? It'd take you a

you can usually figure out which eye it

was in . Now you know what you're doing

when you're supposed to be sleeping .

Yeah . Yeah . And there was

a comment that .