NASA-UAP-D024: “Apollo 16 Scientific Debriefing”

What do we need a mic ? You hear me ?

Oh , OK . First of all , let me say

thank you from , from SNAD for the

scientific help on Apollo 16 . I

personally think that you all did a , a

very credible job in helping the

science support room and pre-flighting

to get all the experiments ready to

prepare the crew and the flight for

Apollo 16 . I think that looking back

on it now we can say we had a very

successful mission that we obtained a

tremendous amount of information from

the flight . I know that the rock boxes

back there at the curatorial facility

are bursting at their seams and the

geologists are going to have a lot to

do . I think also that because of the

problems that arose and the necessity

to change the flight plan , that you

responded quite well to get the maximum

science out of the time that we had

available . I realize that in all of

our flights there hasn't been one

flight yet that ran according to

schedule , and I am very sure that

Apollo 17 will be in the same boat ,

that we will have to change things in

real time . To get the maximum

scientists science out of the mission ,

and I think the response on this flight

was superb . Now today , the

briefing here is in two parts and for

two purposes . First of all , I'd like

each principal investigator to briefly

describe the results so far obtained

from his work . This is to sort of

educate the crew on what we obtained so

far from Apollo 16 so that they might

have information along that line . Also ,

I'd like to have him describe any

anomalies that might have occurred that

we do not know about now . And second ,

then we'd like to have the PI with the

crew working with them to have the crew

answer any questions that might still

be puzzling him so that he might

further his analysis of the data . We

have a lot of people to go through

today , a lot of science to cover , so

we'd like to keep each briefing short

and we don't want to cover things that

are pretty well are general knowledge

as of today . And we

start right out . Let's see . First one

is Palmer dial , Lunar Surface

magnetometer .

After each experimenter describes his

experiment , we'll have questions ,

Palmer , so we'll We can ask the crew

any questions after your particular

talk . OK There's a

mic Mike right over there .

You may sit , stand , anything you

wanna do .

The , um I guess

the uh main uh functions of both

instruments went nominally . The , uh ,

I'd like to cover both the portable and

the surface uh . If that's acceptable ,

the , um , uh , the ,

the ALSEP instrument , the surface

magnetometer that you deployed first

looked like it went according to plan .

The field that we measured as soon as

it was turned on , I think it was

turned on about 15 minutes or so after

you , uh , deployed it was 230 gamma

and , uh , in a downward direction .

And uh at that particular time , that

was the highest field that we'd ever

measured on the on the lunar surface .

The The calibration of the

instrument went straightforward . We

did do a gradient determination of the

field at the site , the site survey as

we call it functioned normally .

It's Thermal control subsystem is the

best that we've put on the moon so far .

We have a Delta T from lunar day to

lunar night of

51 °C , which is a factor

of two better than our Apollo 12

thermal subsystem . The

leveling of the device was I noticed in

the photograph yesterday that the

bubble level was right in the center

ring . The level sensors that we have

are accurate to a quarter of a degree

and they show that the

instrument is level to 1

degree accuracy right now .

Um , The instrument has new

sensors in it . These are more stable ,

and it's really the first chance we

have of doing network type measurements

of the fields on the moon . We do see

whole . We have seen simultaneous data

now from 15 and 16 . We see the

magnetic fields due to eddy currents

that are driven in the entire lunar

sphere . And uh for the first time

experimentally we've always made that

assumption that we've got an instrument

that's setting on at one point on a

sphere and that we're looking at the

properties of a whole sphere . And we

had some experimental evidence that

that was the case . Now we have

unambiguously shown with this second

instrument that that is indeed the case

and that the assumption is correct that

we are looking at a whole spherical

response of the moon . The , you mean

you're seeing eddy currents all the way

through the moon , huh ? We're seeing

eddy currents go travel around the

whole sphere , but . With these new

sensors now and with long term data ,

what we , what we're going to try and

do is look , as you say , right at the

center of the moon as they go all the

way through . Now that's what we're

waiting for during the lunar night is a

nice step function and a long term , uh ,

both before and after so we can see ,

these currents diffuse right through

the center of the moon . The

The other thing that I think that is

unique about this instrument that that

now we have a chance to look at the as

mutual variations in connectivity we

can not only look at radial dependence

of the electrical connectivity and

calculated temperature , but now we can

look at the . As methyl or angular

variations between uh Apollo 15 and

Apollo 16 site and those , and that

spread is far enough so that we ought

to be able to extrapolate those

measurements to a great circle around

the whole moon as far as muthyl

dependence . The , uh , portable

magnetometer was really . Exciting , um ,

first of all , uh , the , uh , field

that , uh , the first field I think you

measured was 180 gamma down and in the

kyle it looked like that all the fields

were , uh , in essence pointed in a

downward direction and , um , uh , at

the Alps side it was 230 gamma up near

Spook it was 180 gamma and then on the

other side of the limb when where you

parked the rover at um . Um , at

the last , uh , station , it was 120

gamma , and at that station you put a a

rock on it and it looks like we

measured about 4.7 gamma from that rock .

So the rock was large enough and it had

a large enough moment that it looks

like we did see a difference . And

these measurements do have an air bar

on them that is like plus or minus as

much now as 5 to 10 gamma because the

solar wind and all the other inductive

fields that are around that have to be

subtracted out of the measurements from

our magnetic , from the tape and data

reduction . The The

measurements at

station 5 were pointed upward .

Uh , that was a and uh the measurements

up near North uh Ray crater were

pointed downward at 313 gamma . I think

that there we , they , there are some

uh . Things that we

we could probably say we're making a

lot of assumptions , but it looks like

if this highland material is older than

the other , it looks like that we have

at least a chance of looking at the

paleomagnetic history of the lunar

crust from these measurements . The

high fields indicate that that either

the permine source , the source of this

field was . If it remains

stable over the time period that the

Maria were cooling , then the highland

material would indicate this high field

would indicate that it that it indeed

had a time variation in its magnitude ,

or that the Maria , the flooding of the

Maria Basins or whatever caused the

Maria basins to be as they are today

demagnetized the material that had been

there originally . In other words ,

the material is less magnetic it seems

than this material . The interesting

thing too is that the the samples ,

as you know , are from the regolith ,

and they've really physically been

modified over the years and I think

that the measurements that we've

obtained over scale sizes in the order

of 10 kilometers indicate that we're

looking at a depth below , well below

the regolith , and that this is

indicative of . Of fields that

were at the moon during a time

period before in the order

of 3 to 4 billion years ago , the

direction and the other thing that we

can say now from the measurements of

the solar wind , simultaneous

measurements of . Solar wind and

magnetic fields at the Apollo 12 and 15

site , we can say that these high

fields that you measured at the Apollo

16 site modifies drastically the

the direction and interaction of the

solar wind with the moon at these

places . It should channel the charged

particles and . Either

at different locations uh

asymmetrically on the lunar surface in

these areas and in some cases one can

now state that the scale size of the

field are large enough so that you

could form a shock and actually stand

off the solar wind over small regions

of the moon . Guess

that covers both of them . Yeah . Do

you have any questions you want to ask

the crew concerning anything about the

deployment or any of the experiment

that you know about ? Um , Palmer , let

me ask you , what has affected that

rock out there by the big LSM ? Did

that hurt it much ? No , first , uh ,

where you , where you parked the rover

the first time in the TV camera , we

were extremely disturbed because the

angle was such it looked like that .

was as big as the electronics box and

it looks like that the PRAs were were

oriented so it was shining right into

them and all the IR radiation would

really heat us up during the daytime

but then the other view showed that the

rock was relatively small compared to

the dimensions of the box and it didn't

affect the thermal subsystem at all and

magnetically it didn't they really

don't contain that much oriented field

to do anything . I guess , uh , one of

the things I'd like to say is this ,

what we intended to do is we intended

to drive 100 yards away from the , out

in front of the lunar module with the

With a rover and do sort of a

north-south traverse looking for the

best place to deploy ALEP to get away

from all these things . Uh , the , we

ran into problems with the , with the

UV . and that it took longer to do that

last . Measurements and

anticipated and we couldn't do that .

And I'm sure that somebody looking at

the photos can find a better place out

in front of the lunar module to put the

total package , but I like to say that

package is so big and that surface is

so blocky and so full of craters that

under the circumstances I almost

believe we had to take what we got . I

hate to say that , but . And , I just

wouldn't believe that that surface was

as rough and covered with blocks as it

turned out to be . I think I could have

still been walking up there with that

package if I'd have been looking for a

level spot . I got up on top of the

ridge and I looked over and said , Well ,

ran over there and it didn't look any

there's a good place over there , and I

better than the place I'd just been .

there , and I ran over there and

And , well , there's a good place over

finally after about the 3rd time I said ,

Well , look , I'm just going to put

this thing down here at best we got .

But it's really blocky and a lot of

fresh craters there , secondary . Well ,

but I , but I think that the , uh , uh ,

if you look at the , at least the

magnetometers , if I looked at each of

the photos that I could find where

you'd taken a picture of both the ALP

magnetometer and the portable , uh ,

you picked , uh , you didn't put the

thing next to rocks or craters on a

scale size that was big enough to

affect the instrument . I , I think

that's the main criteria which was

observed during that . John , did you

know the rationale for doing that

unplanned portable magnetometer reading ?

No , but it doesn't make any difference .

I mean , we did it . You can't explain

it in real time . That's all right . Uh ,

one , on the hardware , uh , the

sunshield on the LSM , the latch didn't

come loose , and I kept pulling the ,

the arms up to try to get that latch

loose , and I finally had to hold the

arm down and , and , uh , get the latch .

Uh , loose with the other hand and then

as I tried to lock the thing , the

latch didn't fall off it , it tangled

up into that little wire that locks

into the little ball and that was , uh ,

uh , I almost left it , uh , like that

without locking it and in fact ,

Houston said go ahead and leave it ,

but Uh , one more little effort the

thing finally dropped off and I thought

I was going to disturb the level , but

if you seem like you're satisfied with

the level , yeah , the , the , uh , the

only thing I worry about there is that

and if you disturb that you can sort of

we've got a level sensor in the thing

see that jiggle , but the , uh , the

azimuth , you know , when you read that

shadow graph off , that's the only

measurement we get in asimuth ever and ,

uh , so as long as you could , you

didn't disturb the , uh , twisting of

it , then , uh , it's fine . OK , thank

you , Palmer . Next

experimenter will be , uh , Doctor Gary

Latham , past the seismic experiment .

Let's get you We ask a question from

the floor . Yes , yes , go ahead .

Um , gradients from which instruments .

Oh , we don't have the , uh , you know ,

we've gotta take out the fluctuations

15 . No , we don't have that , uh ,

in the solar wind from the others using

tape .

The actual photo you took of the LSN

was taken though after you had deployed

the sunshield , right ? At the , the 3

footer , I think was , that's correct ,

yes , uh-huh . There wasn't any

disturbance and we didn't touch it

after that . If there are any questions

on the before any time after the

discussion , feel free to just raise

your hand . Our fun began , as you

know , with the S4B impact on this

mission . You also know we lost

tracking on it prematurely , which ,

which Meant that we were not able to

get the coordinates and time of the

impact independent of our own

measurements . Nevertheless , we could

locate it fairly well from the two near

stations , 12 and 14 , which made it a

useful impact at the greater range up

to station 15 , and uh

we're looking at those signals now , it ,

it , I think we can say that this

peculiarly high velocity . Mantle as we

called it , that we had found in the 12

and 14 region can't be a global

feature unless it is exceedingly thin ,

a thin slab of this high velocity stuff .

The signals we got , and I must say

this , that there is always the

uncertainty that we really didn't see

the first arrival up there because it

was at 1100 kilometers , and the first

signal you see is quite weak . There's

always the uncertainty as to whether or

not it is the first , the fastest

traveling wave in the moon and not

something else , but if it is , uh ,

then this very high velocity material

that we call mantle is not global or an

exceedingly thin layer . It looks as

though we get velocities approaching 8

kilometers per second . At depths of

the moon of the order of 100 kilometers ,

not 9 kilometers per second as we had

in the 12 and 14 region . There's also

very weak evidence from that signal ,

and I haven't convinced my colleagues

of this yet , nor myself really , but

the possibility of a reflection from a

very deep interface , perhaps

550 kilometers deep ,

is there . And we're looking for ways

to see whether or not that can be

verified . In other words , a primitive

core perhaps or some other reflector at

very great depth . So this impact , uh ,

will , I think , provide very , very

useful data despite the loss of

tracking . We would have been of course

much better off had we been able to

photograph that impact area , and I , I

understand that the curtailed time in

orbit precluded that . Is that right ?

We did not photograph it in that S4B ,

yeah . The

deployment was good . I think the

pictures tell the story as far as I'm

concerned , the The instrument does get

hot during a lunar day as the other

instruments have . This has been the

case in every one . I think it's a

matter of just , it's just not possible

to keep dust off of that shroud , I

think , when you have to work that

close to it , and that that degrades

the thermal control some . It does not

degrade the seismic data . It simply

means that the controllers have more

work to do trying to maintain the

thermal stability . And uh it's a

problem we faced in every , every one

of the missions , so it's not . In fact ,

I thought the deployment , uh , uh ,

the configuration of the shroud that I

saw and so on , looked , looked very ,

very good . There's one little place

where it's raised up is where the cable

comes out underneath . It's turned on

its edge a little bit and , uh , that

of course is something of a heat loss ,

but it's not , not serious at all .

Yeah , we , we patted that rascal down

because of the 15 problems . But maybe

it's , uh , before a guy leaves that ,

uh , ACE site , if he's got a problem

like it maybe is ALE on 17 , probably

it's not . A is on the seismic seismic .

OK , well . Those rascally things , uh ,

assume some different kind of , uh ,

orientation than they did before we

left , before we left , and maybe you

ought to go back one more time and make

sure those things are , haven't changed .

Don't ask me , uh . I think maybe they

out gas a little and then take up a

different shape . Well , it's not

only , it's not only your , your near

activities . I think when we saw that ,

that TV picture degrade on Lem ascent ,

it's obvious that a lot of debris is

being thrown around and you just can't

avoid a good dusting down from that

source . So our , our carefully

prepared thermal surfaces act more like

black bodies than anybody figured on as

a result of all of this . Then we saw

your rover signals which this time

provided very , very interesting data .

Uh , in that they showed rather abrupt

changes in signal level as you moved

around . Uh ,

We're not sure yet what to make of that .

We're gonna work with Bill Muhlberger

and his crew carefully on the traverse

to see whether or not we can identify

specific provinces in which the signal

level is quite a bit higher . I guess

I would like to ask your impression .

Uh , As you were rolling

along and given along the given EBAs

that you , you felt at , at given times

that the rover was bouncing , uh ,

noticeably more than at other times .

That might have generated higher signal

levels . Sometimes she was off the

ground . There's no doubt about that .

To the south , on EBA 2 , that

area was a lot rougher than the

traverse route to North Ray Crater . My

impression of North Ray crater traverse

once we passed Palmetto was it was

really boulder free area , very subdued

old craters , then the rover just sped

along and much like a West Texas type

terrain , whereas to the south it was ,

uh . Really rough ,

particularly on Survey Ridge when we

were traversing that area with all the

secondaries and blocks . We managed to

be up in here quite a bit , uh . Simply

because there are so many secondaries

and blocks that we had to hit some

small ones to avoid the big ones . The ,

uh , subjective opinion

of mine also is that around at least at

stop 13 where we actually got off the

rover , uh , the regolith did not seem

as , as loosely compacted as to the

south and in fact at North Ray crater

at Station 11 and 12 , it was no more

than a couple inches deep because we

couldn't get the rake in without

bending the times of the rake . So the

reguluth up there was very thin , uh .

And I don't know whether that means

there's a Just some very cobbly

densely compacted blocks under there

from that were thrown out or or that

are now that much covered or whether we

just picked some bad sites , but we

tried to rake twice and both times the

only luck we had was kicking stuff into

the rake . We couldn't pull the rake

through the regular and you couldn't

stick the tongs in either . Yeah , and

other place you could take the tongs

the tongs wouldn't go in and every

and stick into the ground . They'd

stand up for you . You know , in

general this area from from the general

character of our signals , it , it

gives the appearance of being the

thickest pile of , of what we can quite

loosely call regolith of any of the

sites . And I guess Bob Kovacs will

talk on his results on , on that , and ,

and of course we await his his mortar

firing to give us a little more

information on that . Well , we'll be

looking at these rover signals and see

if we can , we can somehow pin them

down to , to roughness of terrain or ,

or just what , uh , from the pictures

that you took along the way . Uh

We now have the the quiet nighttime

period and we're waiting for the first

moonquake of this session , which ,

which ought to be . Well , I was hoping

it would be in the last 24 hours . It

wasn't , uh , but should be before May

12th , so in the next few days , and ,

and of course with this last station ,

we now have completed a very nice

triangular array . The other three gave

us a very narrow base thing . Now we

have a thing with a 1000 kilometer

baseline which , which if it lasts for .

As long as they appear to be lasting ,

will give us the tools to really do the

job over the next A couple of years .

Uh , and of course we'll be using that

in the S-4B impact from the next

mission . I'd like to turn to one

The flash is mentioned beginning at 25:15.

observation reported from orbit that

that has interested us a great deal ,

and that was the flash that was

reported . I haven't seen , I

understand the transcript is now hasn't

yet been typed . I haven't seen it yet ,

so I , that's my only hope for pinning

down the time . If you get about 5

minutes if you can help us pin down the

time and roughly the location , we'll

certainly look at our records and that

would be an important piece of data if

we if we recorded that . I would like

to ask , was this a colored flash or a

white flash . Uh , what

was your , how does it differ from the

kind of thing you get with a cosmic ray

impact on your brain ? I didn't see any

of those . He didn't see any of those .

I see redhead .

But they weren't trust flashy , so .

Well , we're , we're very much excited

by that . As far as I know , it's the

first report of a transient event of

some nature that's been seen from orbit .

It didn't occur to me to write it down .

Do we get a time on it at all , uh ,

Ken , or it's on the DSC . It's on the

DSC . Yeah . If I ever get that , I'll

then it would correlate any information

we get from the seismic , uh , devices .

Yeah , how about its persistence ? Did

it It was just a flash and

and the way I happened to notice it , I

was looking at a At a horizon that was

showing up from solar corona or

zodiacal light , whatever you want to

call it in that region . It was very

shortly after we lost the signal from

Earth . And I was watching stars pop

up . Over the horizon . And

uh got this flash which was

In size was about I

didn't , I didn't , I wasn't looking

directly at it at the time it happened

happening down in the side of my vision .

But it was brighter than the than the

brightest star that I had in the field

of view at the time . And I had the

feeling that it was uh , in physical or

angular size it was . Equivalent

to the size of the larger stars in my

perceived . Vision , but it was just a ,

it was just an instantaneous flash and

that it took us a couple of seconds for

it to soak into me that it wasn't just

a star popping up over the horizon ,

but rather it had been distinctly below

the horizon . Is there a way for me to

get that transcript ? Uh , I , I , I

don't know if I would normally get it .

I'm glad , I'm glad you asked . Oh ,

that's it . Uh , and I forgot to

mention this in the opening remarks ,

but we have about 50 copies of this

right back there and , uh , for

technical air to ground voice , uh ,

the PIs and the CIs , and , uh ,

there's a copy for you , Gary Beck .

That's not what you're on the tape . Oh ,

the DSC on the DSC , and that hasn't

been completed as far as I know . Now

one other thing But I'd like to mention

it from orbit , it appeared to me that

there was a distinctly different unit .

Up around North Ray in an area that a

pro I'd say 13 to a half of the

traverse to North Ray went across . And

uh , That may or may not fit in with

your seismic deltas .

That at some point between North Roy

and Alem they would cross a contact of

some kind .

Well , except to add my thanks for a

very fine deployment . That's all I

have . Thank you . Any questions on the

floor ?

Well , I don't know where the S4B hit ,

but this is on the , on the backside of

the limb , so I would assume that the

S4B didn't hit there and it's well

after that . Like a couple of days

lunar days . Uh .

Where where did yes for me back . Oh ,

it did about 150 kilometers north of

station 12 .

Emergency call . When , when you

mentioned you observed through optics ?

No , the , the time I was doing this ,

I was looking out the window and I had

darkened the cockpit in preparation for

one of the low light level photographic

exercises , and that's how I happened

to be noticing that there was this

distinct horizon which surprised me ,

and I just happened to be kind of

puzzling over that at the time . OK .

Any other questions ?

No . Not with your advisors down .

I never looked with the visor supposed

to do that . I suspect from what we saw

in EVA on the way home that the inner

visor alone has sufficient attenuation

to block out stars , but you could see

them from the , uh , through the AOT in

the lunar module , and , uh , that's ,

of course , that has a light shield

around it , uh , on our last alignment ,

even with a crescent Earth , uh , in

the AOT , uh , we could see , uh , ACA ,

real , real , really , uh . So good

that we didn't have to . Roll up the

window shades in the cockpit .

So with a proper , uh , if you look

through a tube , I'm sure you could see

every star up there . The only thing we

saw on the lunar surface was the earth

and you had to , it was directly

overhead . That was the only thing I

saw in the sky . John , when you're

looking through the sight on the camera .

Did you see anything besides here ? You

see your helmet reflected . That's what

you see . You have to raise your visor

to get all that so you can get rid of

all those reflections .

OK , next one is active seismic

experiment , Dr . Kovac .

Mm .

Well , we had several objectives on

this . Experiment I'd like to

summarize these basic questions like

how thick is the seismic regulith would

be one question . What were the in-situ

physical properties of the lunar near

surface material , and thirdly , are

there any distinct seismic horizons and

how do they correlate with our

estimates to geological horizons . And

finally , were there any regional

differences in seismic velocities ,

i.e. , something characteristically

different between the Maori and the

Highlands ? Well , the deployment , the

execution of the thumper experiment was

outstanding . I mean , the records are ,

are clearer , and the background noise

was , uh , sufficiently low , and we

got clean first breaks completely down

the , uh , geophone line . Couldn't

that first one . I , uh , I felt really

have asked for a better I'm sorry about

happy when that rascal worked that I

stopped walking . I started walking to

the next . Well , the

record shows that for some reason you

inadvertently didn't hold it in a

charged position sufficiently long

enough , and that's the reason you did

it the second time . No , I , that's ,

I thought I started walking too soon

after the first , uh , one went off .

The , the one that , yeah , that was my ,

that was a pure procedure there . Well ,

if you walk too soon , it didn't hurt

us any , didn't bother you , OK . The

uh The data needs yet to be corrected

for topographic effects . There's some

severe undulations in the topography ,

and we can see this in the data , but I

can give you some first impressions .

Of , uh , our results . Number one ,

there's certainly no variability in the

first arrival velocities across the

geophone array . And the uh apparent

velocity or the velocity is again very

close to 100 m per second which is uh

seems to be the magic number for the

regolith . At , uh ,

many different places now on the moon ,

i.e. , out in the Mari and now up here

in this finally up in this highland

site . Uh , There are no evidence of

flows beneath the beneath this geophone

line . I feel sufficiently confident we

would have recognized that . Uh

Now the fact that we didn't recognize

any variability in the velocity , we're

able to say one more thing . Because we

recorded the limb ascent , uh , when we

turned on the geopphone line and that

was a position some 140 m away from our

first geophone . And we did get a

faster apparent velocity , and it's

very close to the value measured for

Frau Marrow for Brecccius . And so with

this type of a number now , i.e. , 2 to

300 m per second underlying this , this

regulith , we can put a thickness bound

on the regolith at this site , and it

is indeed very thick , at least 40 m .

And I'll be able to refine that , uh .

Number a little bit when we get the uh

mortars fired .

We also did turn on the ASE geophone

array and recorded , you know , your

rover approaching the lambda and the

end of EVA 3 , and we also got very

interesting signals and we hope to

analyze these in an analogous way as

Gary is . Suggested and uh .

That's about all I can say for the

quick look of our data at this point .

We do have the concern , of course . I

do have the concern about the grenade

box deployment . I'm sure I've asked

pictures yet , so maybe it'll be

you that . I haven't seen any of the

self-explained , but maybe you could

reassure me that it's level . It's

level . I guarantee you that was

probably the only level place we had

around there , uh , and I was really

pleased to see when we got out the end

of the . To where we could deploy it

that would be level . It's really good

and I reported the , uh , I don't

remember what Azimuth heading that we

put it on . It's very close . It seemed

like it was 330 as opposed to 333 that

it should have been on . That's off the

top of my head . We have to go back and

look , but I reported it . And I found

out later that you could break that pin

by pulling on the leg , but I certainly

didn't know that , uh , if somebody

told me that during the uh training why

it had gone right over my head , but we

we do have three good legs in there and

I'll bet you that rascal can't get out

of the ground because of the way it

into quicksand . And once it gets in

went in . It's sort of like pushing it

there , I defy anybody to get that

mortar box back out of there . Because

it uh it really grabbed a hold of it .

Well , again , I'd like to offer my

thanks for an outstanding execution of

anything better . Thank you . It was

the experiment . We couldn't ask for

our pleasure , boy . It really worked

good . I was really pleased . Any

questions ? How , how do you define the

size ? What's that

with a , uh , well , we define the

regulate . I don't know how the

you define , but we define it as

geologist may may not agree with what

material which apparently covers much

of the lunar surface and has this

characteristic velocity of 100 m per

second . And what comes after that

underneath this particular site is

something that has velocities like

fraught marl wretches . Uh , you , you

said something about you were sure that

there was no flow material underneath

this , uh , I guess I miss missed the

conclusion we've done experiments on

Earth , and I , I say that that we've

been able to recognize flows because

the velocities are characteristically

much higher . And uh if you want to

argue that there may be very thin flows ,

i.e. thinner than our , our sampling

wavelength , which is like 2 to 3 m ,

they could be there , but we certainly

on the average didn't see any big

sequence of high velocity flows when

you say high velocity , this 2 or 300

that you're talking about from the

essence , that's not high . Yes , every ,

every small crater that we looked into

with the exception probably a buster

crater , we never saw anything that

looked like , uh , anything but , uh .

I mean , it just looked like more of

the same . It looked like , uh , Relith ,

I mean , you know , we never saw

anything that looked like outcropper ,

and we were sure looking for it . It's

2 to 300 m velocity talking about male

and that was the stretch of material

that you say is underlying the re , is

that right ? That's my first look at it .

When do you fire the mortars ? OK . Oh ,

that's a really good question . What's

the latest word on mortar firing ? Do

we have any idea about what you plan on

doing that ? Well , there's a meeting

to request that you fire it on May 23rd .

at 1 o'clock this afternoon . I'm going

Bastille Day

and it's arm too . Uh ,

OK . Our next , uh , next subject is

the solar wind composition , uh ,

Doctor Meister .

Unfortunately , there is not much to

tell about the solar wind composition

experiment . The foil was transferred

to Switzerland at the end of last

weekend and we don't have any results

yet , of course . The foil was

deployed during the 1st DVA and

retrieved at the end of the 3rd DVA .

With a total exposure time of 45 hours

and 5 minutes . That's some 3 hours

longer than the record of the previous

missions , which was about 52 hours on

Apollo 15 .

The main difference between the foil of

Apollo 16 and the ones of the previous

missions is that some pieces of

platinum foil have been attached to the

previous design which was composed of a

pure aluminum foil . These platinum

foil pieces can be cleaned by fluoridic

acid , which allows to remove all the

possible lunar dust contamination .

This technique has been tested in the

lab on bombarded foils . And showed

that you can remove essentially all the

lunar dust contamination without losing

any measurable amount of trapped rare

gas , ions , or atoms of solar

wind origin . This technique

should allow us to determine the

isotopic composition of the rare gas

elements of solar wind origin . Up to

the mass of possibly Krypton .

The first visual inspection of the foil

here at MSC showed that the foil is

crumpled but essentially free of

lunar dust . That's of course only a

visual observation . We don't

know how the foil looks like under a

microscope . I would like to thank the

crew for . The proper deployment and

retrieval of the foil , we are very

pleased with . What the foil looks like .

Thank you very much . Can't miss when

it tells you where the sun is at sun .

I would , uh , the , the thing didn't

roll up like I thought it was going to ,

and I'm sorry I had to crinkle it , but

it was so big and that I had to squeeze

it down and get it into the bag , and

it , and it ripped once too , I guess

you saw that . That's , that's only a

problem of aesthetics . It doesn't hurt

it . OK , good . I didn't think it did .

Don , uh , if the local magnetic field

is standing off the solar windier ,

what will that look like ? We don't

know that it might be that we have

discrimination between the lighter and

heavier elements in the solar wind . We

have to check that maybe there's a

dependence on the height over the lunar

surface of the composition between the

heavier and lighter elements . But we

have to check that first and see

particles will be deflected much more

than the heavier ones . Can

you see those uh I don't know , I ,

this is probably a stupid question ,

but these cosmic ray , these particles

that cause the light flashes , I was

seeing them on the lunar surface at ,

uh , during the sleep periods . Do

those things register on your

experiment ? No , they have higher

energies and , and they go through the

foil . I see . Yeah . Huh ?

Well , while we , while we sort of make

things bulky , could you tell any

difference in the material between the

brought it back ? Is there any realness

time you deployed and the time you

or anything you might have observed ?

No , uh . No difference there .

uh , looking at it one time out the

window , I thought I saw some white

streaks on it , but , uh . That might

have been just the way the sun was , uh ,

it might have been those platinum

strips that I've never noticed when I .

And placed it . I really don't know it

just looked like it had a couple of uh

randomly oriented streaks on it to me

from the wind limb window but uh when

we rolled it back up again . Instead of

rolling straight up , it rolled out in

a big long thing , and I had to redo it

again . And when that happened , I , I

ripped it and then had to crunch it

down . We , we don't see any difference

between the foil we sent up and the

foil that came down except . Some lunar

dust on it . Nothing else ?

Can I ask the crew a question ? Do you

have an idea how the foil was oriented ?

Was it essentially vertical to them ?

The photographs , I mean along the

gravitational force lines or was it