NASA-UAP-D026 — Apollo 14 Debriefing, 1971

You're , you're coming through loud and

clear . OK , I guess we got 3 mics .

One very What mics do we

need ? Good Morning , Charles . Hello ,

how are you ? Fine , how are you ? Fine ,

good . You're

fine . Good .

Yeah , we tried to go through this , uh .

You know , your debrief last night ,

the , the , uh , printed one , you know ,

there's all the stuff that you guys did

on , on tape , your tech debrief , to

get those so that we try and not repeat ,

you know , only amplify stuff and so

we've tried to come up , you have much

time to do that , but I hope we've got

most of that stuff . And , uh OK . If

you , If you think we're hitting some

area that you think , you know , is a

conflict with that , well yell and tell

us and we'll . All righty . Change her

around . And some of the things , now

there were some things that you guys

said yesterday , you know , when I was

in the project debrief that that

probably uh . Bear on some of these too .

Good morning . Good morning .

Thank you

Mm What do you mean ? It's

cold in here this morning . Yeah .

Good morning Bill . Hi . Hi , Craig .

Are we using those mics ? I don't know

whether they're hot or not . On the

floor before we , uh , you know , start

asking questions to identify yourself

so . Transcribing , know our voices and

see who these people are .

Very . OK

Um

Oh . OK ,

in case we need somebody know about

sources of counseling but sources of uh

wait a minute . Yeah .

Right . Sources of potassium in the

diet . That from somebody . Yeah ,

I think .

Really handy . Here .

I don't either . We don't have But

that's some stuff I'd like . I saw a

picture today . It was a lot better

than the one they had . More

interesting too . Yeah . I .

Sorry about that .

I got some . I

I sleep . This is the first thing .

There's another one .

This Give the up .

Yeah , it's hard

isn't anything you can do . I heard

what you did . OK , the show's all

yours . What kind of format do you have

in mind ? OK , uh , answers . Yeah ,

uh , questions and answers . Uh , I

guess . We ought to for the tape

identify this is Doctor Barry and for

the medical debriefing and I'll try and

uh ask most of the questions . If

people have some here , we'll try and

hand them in that way . If they're not ,

will you identify yourself and I think

they can identify you guys' voices

pretty well already on the tape , so

with the tape thing . Chuck ,

there shouldn't be any problem with ,

I think we're gonna have to . They're

not loud enough . It's not . It's a

little down , Mr . Bernhardt , where is

he ? I'll take care of it . Probably

outside I guess . Can , can you get him

to turn them up some ? We can yell for

a while here if it'll help , and then

we can get them to turn them up some .

You just speak up loud

1234554321 . Looks

like it's coming out of those .

Is that where it's coming from there ?

Yes . OK . Uh ,

Craig we'll get somebody in . We got

Tom . Try it again .

1234554321 . Test out . It's better .

It's way down . Uh , I think the

knob's wrong on this one . loud and

clear back there . Well , it's not

coming in there though . They're not

getting it in there , OK . We can hear

them great , but they're not hearing us

very well . They want that mic turned

inside . The speaker , not the

mic . OK .

I set it on the minimum setting in here

instead of the max . The max seems to

be me and vice versa . Oh really . OK .

Hey , that's a lot better . OK , it's

labeled wrong . They're , they're just

screwed up and that's too much . Yeah ,

yeah , we can , we can hear you loud

and clear now . That's great . OK , OK ,

good show . OK ,

I'm gonna start a little bit , uh , out

of , out of order here , but one of the

things that sort of pervades at all is

medical requirements and in this

section 27 you had some comments about ,

uh , the medical requirements , and I

thought we ought to , we ought to just

get 11 question with you . We in

explaining the medical requirements ,

we have one opportunity to do that with

uh with DEC of course at the at the

time that we're trying to get the

document published . The second , uh ,

document , the medical requirements

the only opportunity we really get to

go over that with you was at the the 30

day debrief , uh , 30 day briefing , uh ,

prior to the flight . Now , did you

guys feel that you had an understanding

of what the requirements were ? Because

when I read this , it sounds like you

did not . Is that true ? I think we

read , I read the forms , Chuck , and ,

uh , understood in general what

what you were after at least the , the

number of sessions we had . I think

it's a question of degree here . OK ,

well , one of the things which I think

is a very valid thing , like , like ,

uh , Al's comments about , uh , you

know , you should substantiate the

requirements , no question about that .

They should be clear . They should be

clear to you in the sense that you

ought to know that what you are doing

is , is worthwhile and the stuff is

used and it isn't , it isn't wasted

somewhere down the line . Somebody

isn't just doing it for fun and . We

try , uh , that's something we try to

iron out pretty hard in our own house ,

and one of the things I'd like to do is

if we run , if you guys end up at uh

sometime before the end of of the

quarantine period here and have some

time , we ought to have that data

together by then and then prior to the

time that , that , uh , we end up

getting you out if you've got a an hour

or something . we might be able to go

over with you and show you here's

here's what we saw with you with the

lab data and the whole bit and say

because you know it's very hard to get

back together again after you get out

of here to do that sort of thing .

Everybody says they'd like to know what

happened to them . We could do that to

you in here and tell you that and here

are the samples that were used to do

that so you . Have some idea

understanding about how that happened .

the comment was made not from a point

Would that be worthwhile to you ? Yeah ,

of view , a specific complaint about

our flight , but just , uh , I think a

continuing understanding between the

two , directorates . We agree ahead of

time because it's , it's the kind of

thing , well , just like with other

scientific experiments , unless the

crew understands the reasons and agrees

going to be a successful experiment .

with it , you know , the thing isn't

Amen . So , uh , it wasn't the comment

wasn't made . From a point of

criticizing anything specifically about

our protocol at all just to reiterate

what uh what everybody ought to know

but doesn't always think about and I

think Chuck also uh

Probably the last few weeks before

flight is not the time to try to brief

the crew on the medical requirements .

At that time their thoughts are quite a

bit on other things and perhaps it

needs to come earlier than that . Uh ,

that's a good , that's a good point .

Uh , I think each one of us is

concerned with ourselves medically as ,

as the medical effects , the physiology

of flight , etc . etc . but the last

few weeks , uh , you just can't get

yourself cranked up to really think

about those things . Except for the

things that are gonna happen to you so

you can be mentally prepared for it . I

think I may have precipitated that

comment , uh , at least when we got to

that area and started that about , uh ,

and , and I guess it really wasn't a

complaint , Chuck , as much as just a

statement that it's a drag , you know ,

for 24 hours and so forth , and , and ,

going through , uh , collecting urine

and , you know , uh . I just wanted to

toss it in that you sure hope that it's

worthwhile and , and I think it would

be interesting to sit down and see how

you , what you're really doing with all

that . Good . I , I think that's really

needed because uh we're trying to do

that right now with the Skyline crews

to tell you . What we really know about

what happens to man , what we know from

the Russian side of the thing as to

what's happened on even their longer

here's what , here's what we don't know

one , put the thing together and say

and why we need to know . Well , I

think I think we understood or I

understood your need to . Work out the

total body water , but the actual

mechanics of how that fit into a 24

hour urine collection 6 times and , and

all the blood drawing and how that all

fit into the picture , the theoretical

picture you were painting for us , I

never understood that . Good . OK ,

fair enough . You know , I think

Why don't , uh , why don't we make a

everybody understands all these things .

specific recommendation at this point ?

Now , you know , all the flight crews

have a , a training plan which is set

up about the time that the flight crews

are designated and includes all kinds

of things on the simulators and

scientific briefings and everything

else . And why is , why wouldn't the

best way to do it , but actually to

schedule a time for medical briefings

early . In the training program .

Because I think if you all , uh ,

conversely , if you all feel that , uh ,

an experiment's worthwhile doing , you

want to get your protocol settled early

in , in the game so you have all the

equipment or whatever you need . Amen .

Ready , uh , so it will be , uh , a

satisfactory test . So I would suggest

that maybe sometime uh something be

scheduled in the in the crew training

program early in the game and and I

should it becomes one of those things

you've got to check off like systems

briefings and everything else and I

consist of uh .

should think that briefing should

A bit of the theoretical thing you're

trying to do followed by the mechanics

and the protocol , what that means to

you , uh , yeah , that's right , the

mechanics of how you go about doing it

you're going to do it and how many

and the number of punctures and where

urine samples and that sort of thing

just so the guys understand . Great .

OK , will do . I , that's great . Uh ,

I'd like to go back and pick up one

then on , on the , uh , exercise , uh ,

area . You , you mentioned this in the

debrief and you mentioned it again in

the , uh , uh , yesterday , but can you

give me some idea now you said you

missed , uh , as I remember the , the

debriefing statements here you

commented that you missed one day on

the way out and one day on the way back

and can you , can you say what you did

in time , uh , what , what the exercise .

consisted of what you did roughly in

time . I know you won't notice it in a

minute or a second or anything , but as

roughly as you can . And then , uh ,

what if you have any idea , did you try

and judge what you did as far as did

you try and get a , a heart rate

increase or did you try and judge your

your exercise level in any way ? And

this is particularly important for us

in trying to separate out the effects

that are different between the two of

you are on the surface versus Stu who

was in . In the in the spacecraft all

the time , so we want to keep that , we

want to get that straight if we can .

Could you just sort of brief the

exercises to the way you did it ? Maybe

each of you have to do it because you

probably did it differently . But what

we were shooting for was about a 10

minute period per day exclusive of the

two days of lunar service activity for

the two of us , and , uh , Stu was

gonna try to get about a 10 minute

period per day for including those days .

The uh method of exercise during the

ten-minute period was to use this

ExoGym device which we have and uh .

To operate that in such a fashion that

the old what they call the big four

where you start out with your with your

legs and uh your feet and two loops and

your hands controlling the friction

device from a crouch position to a full

stretch out and do that several times

then hold the uh . The uh fixed

loops and use the legs on the movable

loops and then hold the fixed loop with

the , with the toes and use the biceps

on the movable loops that's the

general pattern that we tried to follow ,

but we didn't make all of those time

periods we missed the uh first day out

because of uh . Well , we didn't have

it scheduled the first day . Well , it

was in the flight plan , but we hadn't ,

I don't think anybody's going to

exercise the first day anyway , uh ,

yeah , in fact , it should never have

been in the flight plan to exercise the

first day . Pretty hard to get that in

in that first day . I don't see how you

had a problem with the docking probe .

You don't really need it in that first

day anyway pardon ? You don't really

need it in that first day . Well , uh ,

in retrospect , I think that it would

probably have alleviated some of the

sore back muscles that first day if we

gone ahead and done it in my case

anyhow . It was kind of like , uh , one

of those things where they said , OK ,

you want to exercise . We put in the

flight plan . I said , yeah , we got to

do it . What we're going to put it ? I

have it in the flight plan . We won't

said , put it in before lunch every day ,

that's how it got in there . OK . Did

before the mid meal every day , and

you said X or Jim , or is it , is it

the Xergenie or Jim ? I think Xer Jim

is a trade name . Yeah , they're both

similar devices . It's the same thing .

It's the friction one , yeah , OK ,

yeah , OK . And , and so 10 minutes a

day is what you had programmed for the

thing and did you have any , do you

have any , did you feel that you really

got a , got a fair amount ? Did you get

up any increase in breathing rate or

heart rate that you were aware of when

you did it ? Yeah , we didn't do it

quantitatively , but certainly , uh ,

yeah , I always tried to stop , uh ,

short of , of cracking a sweat . It's

just not desirable to get all sweaty in

the spacecraft , and I felt like I was

pulling it somewhere around 10 to 15

minutes . I could feel the heart rate

going up and the breathing going up ,

but I would never do it to the point of

a sweat . And it's not a vigorous

exercise . It's more of a , it's a

tension exercise . I put , I put enough

load on it where it was a , a hard pull

but a slow pull . OK , did

yours go about that same way then for

the whole time , even when you were I ,

I'd like to just summarize exercise ,

uh , in my case , uh . I , uh ,

I probably didn't exercise as much in

retrospect as I would have if I were

doing it again uh for various and

sundry reasons , uh . One is ,

you know , you , you don't feel a need

for the exercise . You just gotta say ,

well , I'm gonna , I'm gonna go do this

and uh . There were a couple of times

that we got out the , uh , you know ,

it says exercise period , so we got out

the exerciser and Alan would have at it

and I'd be doing something and I'd say ,

well , I'll put it over here and I'll

get to it in a minute . And then I know

on one occasion , several hours later I

finally got around to getting the To

get in it and uh and doing some

exercise on it . The uh . I'd

say probably 5 to 10 minutes was the

length of time . I ,

I would strain pretty hard . I didn't

work up a sweat , but you know , you

use this thing , you can use it about

any way you want . You can drag them

designed to where you hold and do an

through the ropes or it's really

isometric first and then go right from

the . Isymmetric into the isotonic and

and and you get the whole , the whole

smear , uh , so I'd hold uh

hold pressure on the thing and and

strain against it and you know you can

strain as little or as hard as you want ,

but I'd strain reasonably hard and ,

and then relax the tension and and pull

it up . Uh , but I'm

trying to think , I'm sure that I

missed , uh , one exercise period on

the way out completely that Al and Abe

got in . I did no exercise at all in

lunar orbit . Uh , the thinking of the ,

uh , extra gym was , uh , never even

crossed . My mind for those two days

and then in preparation for uh

for entry I said boy I'm really gonna

hit that on the way home as it turned

out I barely got in the one the one

exercise a day . That

that we did on the way home , so I , I

would say overall uh I probably or

I'm sure I didn't uh hit the uh extra

gym as much as I probably should have .

OK . I don't know how , uh , from

my point of view at least , how you ,

in a case like this where you're trying

to correlate the , the relationship of

the exercise that Ed and I did , for

example . Uh , and its benefits or lack

thereof with respect to the , the , uh ,

lunar surface period which is over 30

hours , and I just think the workload ,

the basic workload there alone is

enough different to . Put that exercise

thing down to the noise level . That's

contribution down the noise level as

far as the two of us are concerned . I

think that's probably very right now ,

to know is , you know , was Stu trying

I , and I think that the thing we want

to make up for it in some way with

exercise in the spacecraft because he

obviously , I mean , there's no way he

could make up for what you were doing

but he had a real busy flight plan .

on the lunar surface . He's trying to ,

Yeah , yeah . I don't think he could do

it , and this , this is what I wanted

to find out was he , was he trying to

time , so . No , I , uh , I wasn't .

do a lot more or something during that

I , I think that'd be a difficult thing

to try to do , really . I , I don't

know . You're going to , uh . Maybe

with the longer period than in lunar

orbit , uh , CMP may not be quite as

busy or maybe . I suspect he probably

will be . I think it's going to be

difficult to , uh , to get in much

exercise there , but , uh ,

no , I wasn't , so it was obvious

that's Stu's greater interests were in

running the spacecraft and for example ,

you might otherwise have allowed . That

the B-23s took a lot of time because

was the kind of , this is the kind of

thing I'm talking about . But if you're

going to get the individuals to try to

exercise and respond to exercise .

You're gonna have to get to them really

to explain the benefits of the crew as

a result of that , right , because it

really is an individual thing . That's

right , and we haven't tried to set any

numbers of times that you do anything

or anything like that and so I think we

at that as an area , OK , uh , and ,

need to really carefully look at , look

while I , uh , added one that came up .

Yesterday when you guys were talking

about uh Myrtle reminded me of the and

the problems that you had in flight

with the the urine kinking of the urine

hose and so forth uh how much time did

you make a conscious effort uh in in

your own particular case because it's

important trying to chase down your

status postflight here . of , uh , the

time that you had the urine device on ,

did , did you have it ? Me ? Well , it

wasn't my hose , it was kinked , you

know . Right , right . It was Al's . I

get twice Al's was , is that right ?

Yeah . Apparently all the time . All

the time , huh ? We , uh . Oh , yeah .

We had it on . I guess we'll have to

look back on the transcript or look

back over the flight plan and Nova and

we took it off the first time . We all

unsuited at the same time , which was

about , uh , 66 hours , 7 hours into

the flight , right ? Somewhere in there .

And uh we put the UCTAs

on uh PDI morning . And

we took them off only when we got back

to the spacecraft after docking . And

it was all for those two periods .

Only . And I never experienced any

discomfort . I never had any problems

whatsoever that , uh , we discussed

preflight . No symptoms , no , uh , of

any sort . Great .

Well , it looks like you know we

haven't had any and you did well . How

did you feel , uh , that's another one

we might just get out the way on fluid

intake , it sounds like you all thought

the water was great and so you were ,

you were drinking well . Uh , did , did

you , were you trying to force fluids ?

Were you trying to consciously force

fluids ? Yeah , I think . You and I

will . Uh , in my case anyhow . Yeah .

I tried to drink , take a drink out of

the water gun about every time I went

by it . I did find that I preferred the

juices to water and surprisingly enough ,

as much as I , Did not care for the

juices pre-flight , particularly , I

didn't crave them or anything . Uh , we

were drinking a couple of juices per

meal , a large portion of the time . I

was , and in addition , uh , taking a

shot from the water gun about every

time I'd go buy it . I , I , I forced

myself to drink the water , uh , not

that it tasted bad or anything , but

just , just to keep the fluid intake up ,

and so I would , I would drink water ,

uh . You know , like it says every time

you pass the water gun , you say , well ,

I think I'll try some of that , and one

person would take a drink of water and

pass it , pass it around and would ,

would put it back up . Did , uh , is

there any chance though you , you

stayed in the debriefing , you , you

felt you drank about half as many

juices as they did because I'd say

they , they , no , I'd say probably say

that's probably a good average . Yeah ,

1/3 less , 1/3 . Yeah . Yeah . And

juices . Um-hum . OK . Yeah , you drank

two juices at some . Yeah , I drank two

occasionally toward the , toward the

end , I was , I was drinking two more

than , uh , I was , because a lot of

times you'd drink a cocoa and a juice

and I'd bypass the cocoa , uh , and I'd

just drink a juice . So , I'd say

probably , and this is a wag , but I'd

say a third less juice than they did .

OK , well , I think I kind of decided I

was gonna try and do everything I could

to . To , uh , End up in as good shape

as I could at the end of the mission ,

which included uh keeping the fluid

intake and the food intake up as well

as the exercise and uh that's generally

what we try to do . You did a great job

of it we had to try to get two juices

per per meal most of the time .

OK , there was a , a question here

about did , uh , for you particularly ,

did you eat more ? Do you feel while

you were , while they were with you ,

Alan Edward with you in the spacecraft

and when you were alone , eat and drink

better ? I saw in your food thing ,

well , I'd say , uh , excuse me , go

ahead . I saw in your food , uh , uh ,

comments there that , that you , you

had difficulty , you know , the food

preparation thing you'd have preferred

if you'd have had some like some canned

and gotten to when you were alone that

things you could have opened quickly

way , and I can surely understand that .

I think it's something we ought to look

eat , uh , that's because we had them

at . But , well , that's the way I did

there . I , I guess it didn't come out

right because that's the way I did eat

and then I would say , uh .

I'd say the answer to your question

would be yes , uh , that . That I ate

more when when they were in there and

but the idea of people being together

is is nothing in that it's a time

factor uh . You know during the coast

during the coast phase you have more ,

uh , you have more time to , you know ,

to worry about eating , uh , during

that lunar orbit phase I didn't have

any time at all and , uh , to , you

know , any extra time and particularly

with the troubleshooting the highon and

so forth , uh , so , uh . I didn't have

the inclination nor want to go to the

trouble of trying to mix up a a meal as

such and I didn't much like that the .

Going to all that trouble anyway , so ,

uh , I opened up , you know , a can of

that chicken salad , I think it was ,

and I had that for breakfast and , uh ,

then a wet pack and , you know , that's

the type of food that you can really

get to in a hurry and eat . Right . So

I wouldn't say overall that , uh , that

I probably ended up eating too much

less , but it was a little different

a rehydratable pack and . So forth . So

rather than sitting down and mixing up

the total amount you don't think was

any different because you're there ,

but it was just different kinds of food

then ? It may have been a little less ,

but , uh , do you , do you personally

feel that you know the weight loss is

involved here and you know yours , you

know that they , uh , you got 1 pound

each here and you got a , a , a 10

pound one , and I heard your comment

about the scale . Yesterday too , but ,

uh , with , do you have any personal

reason why you think there's that much

difference in the weight loss ? I mean ,

is there anything that you know that

it other than the , than the food

you've personally tried to account for

intake , water intake , or anything of

that sort ? No , I

sus I , I'm not sure that there's

anything magic about uh . About the

zerog or the flag , I , I would suspect

I'd probably lost several pounds if I'd

eaten that same , uh same menu and sat

right here , uh .

I , uh , I probably think , uh , that I

was , uh , 3 or 4 pounds overweight

when I went into the flight , uh , as a

matter of fact , you know , I'm not a

big eater , and , uh , during most of

my , uh , during most of the time you

come up on training . Uh , I drink a

can of Sego and a can of V8 juice for

breakfast , and then I eat a sandwich

for lunch and , uh ,

you know , maybe drink , uh , two or

three cans of beer and eat a sandwich

in the evening and , you know , I ,

yeah , you know , you know , I can go

for days on a menu like that and I

don't know how many calories all that

adds up to , but , uh , you know , it's ,

it's , it's not a really a , a high

calorie . Uh , diet , and I would say

that that pretty much was my diet for 3

months prior to going into quarantine

was just about what I , uh , what I

stated there . And then when we got

into quarantine , well then I started

eating , eating more for breakfast and

eating a bigger meal in the evening and

uh so I think I probably was 3 or 4

pounds heavy going in , going into the

flight and uh . So I ,

uh , I think , uh , the weight loss may

be overplayed a little bit because I

think I , uh , had a few extra pounds

and then plus I don't think that , uh ,

maybe we picked the right , uh , the ,

the right weight up on the , on the

rolling scales , but , uh , that's

neither here nor there , you know .

Well , we can probably show you

something about that . From when we get

your lab material pulled together , I

think we'd be able to give you a better

handle on that as to whether , you know ,

it really was something that had to do

with the zero G state or not . We hope

we'll be able to do that . So , we'll ,

a general comment , which I think

we'll try . Well , if I could just add

reflects the consensus here , the three

of us , that , that with respect to the

food in general , the type of food ,

the method by which it was packaged and

so on , And uh , and the degree to

which we like it , disliked it was

primarily a function of the , uh ,

level of activity in the flight plan

that the business of going into the

pantry and taking time to select foods

and drinks and so on is fine during the

quiet periods of coast that things like

uh . Like spoon spoon packages are good

if the level of activity is not too

high , but certainly if the level of

activity is high , the wet packs and

the cans , and that's about all you

want to take time to fool with . I

think this is a general comment that

really reflects our consensus . It was ,

it was a time consuming part of the day

to prepare . Pills , uh , get them all ,

get them out of the , the food box ,

get them all laid out , cut all the

tops off of them , get all the water

into them , get a massaged and go about

eating . Get the pill back in there .

Get the pill back , you know it , it ,

it took a lot of time . It's an effort .

You're right . And , uh , you know ,

it's a lot easier to open up a can and

a wet pack and then , uh , then you .

Then you think it's a lot of trouble to

know , that , that in that way you got

even mix up the juice , but , uh , you

your meal and you're through and you're

on your way . Right . OK . The cooking

problems is , uh , is still a problem

which has been fairly , fairly common ,

I guess as a Yeah , I think , I think

if you got plenty of time , you don't

mind spending an hour or so . As a

hour . It gets rid of that type . Very

matter of fact , it's a very pleasant

effectively , but I , but I would say

in my case that watching these guys eat ,

you know , they , they went right down

the menu , and , uh , so I thought , uh ,

you know , I , uh , I really , I really

should do that , but , uh , I just

didn't have an inclination to eat that

much and , uh , you know , even though

you know in your own mind , you know ,

and you ought to keep yourself . You

hey , you ought to do this , you know ,

know , eat just as much as you possibly

can . I just couldn't get around to

doing it . In fact , several times I'd

mix the food up and then by the time

I just couldn't get to the , to the

I'd eat a couple of packages , you know ,

third package , and so I'd put it back

in the pantry . Well , Stu , uh , one

of the things that's going to come out

reading the , the , the , uh ,

of that is somebody , you know ,

debriefing itself . The obvious

question comes up , OK , was your loss

of it , your lack of appetite itself .

Was it just plain lack of appetite , or

did you really have any , any

discomfort in your , as far as the gut

was concerned at all , anything that ,

that you felt was pathological in , in ,

uh , your loss of appetite due to the

environment or anything ? No , no , I ,

I don't think there's anything that

like I say , I think it , it boils down

to a lot of just too much food , you

know , if you , you bundle up one of

those meals . And uh there's just too

much there to eat . Were any of you

ever thirsty in flight ?

You were dry , yeah , I , I , you were

dry , uh , quite a bit , you know ,

you'd have a sensation of dryness , and

you'd want , and water , you know ,

juice would make you want some while ,

yeah . Did you , while we're at it , we

might just wipe out the water . Did you

guys drink the water in your suits ?

The EVA . I drank all of his . I just

drank about 30 of them I guess . About

30 . On the first one , I don't know

how much of mine I drank . I thought I

emptied the bag , but apparently , uh ,

the walls of the bag got around the

drink tube and I didn't get it all out

because it drained down around my neck

during the sleep period . OK .

OK . I had a leaky one also , which I

took out between EVAs . OK .

Did you fill them up again then when

you went out the second EV ? No . And

you drank about , you think you drank

yeah , I didn't really stop to drink

about 30 years both times ? I'd say ,

too much . Yeah . OK . And I drank on

mine , the second EVA , uh , And I

can't remember whether I drank it all

or not . If I didn't , there may be

some still in it . OK . All right . And

one other comment on , while we're on

that eating , before I forget , uh , we

ran completely out of these , uh ,

bite-sized , uh , packages , you know ,

and to me that was the best , the best

thing we had , these little , you know ,

turkey sandwiches , cheese sandwiches ,

and , uh , and that sort of thing

because that was a no . Sweat operation .

You just clip that off in a can of

juice and you could go at it . So I

really liked those and I ate all those

generally that I could get my hands on

and we ran out of those . Well , we ran

out of most everything else too .

No , not really . I had all kinds of

food . If I may make a comment ,

uh , to that of mine about , about his ,

uh , eating and drinking habits , uh ,

this flight plan is really something

that he worked on , developed for the

flight . It's , it's a busy flight plan .

It's a full one , and it was my

impression that he was more interested

in being sure that the flight plan was

done properly than , uh , than eating .

Oh yeah , I think that affected it to a

great degree , which again gets back to

the level of activity versus the . If

you guys can get a little , for example ,

diaphragm on the end to stick over a

those drink bags , get a little

needle and pump the water in that way

and shake it up , pull the plug out and

drink it out of the same deal , that

would be a lot easier for those drinks .

You mean for the for the juices and

things you mean all the cutting , yeah ,

so that you don't , so you don't end up

the whole thing once you get it done

having to sort of feel you got to drink

you see you got to drink back and you

got a little gnarled the thing that's

all sucked in the plastic is all folded

down unless you got it exactly right .

nozzle without having it leak . Then

First of all , you can't get out of the

you get it all done , then you got to

go cut the other end . And I was just

thinking maybe it might be an easier

way to put a diaphragm fitting on there

hypodermic type of thing and get the

that will you could stick over a

water in that way might be a little bit

quicker way to do it . OK . Anything

you do to make it easier is gonna help

increase the consumption , particularly

during busy time periods . OK , but ,

uh , could we get you , uh , and this

is gonna involve just really , uh ,

Alan , and , uh , Ed , we , we'd like

to have you describe . As well as as

you can , the things that you did with

your uh with your bio instrumentation

harnesses when because it's very hard

for us to be sure exactly what happened

we don't have that stuff back yet we're

gonna set up we've got got to develop a

plan to troubleshoot it and as I under

the thing that happened with yours out

just from our point the actions , not

the words , huh ? Pardon ? You want the

actions , not the words the actions not

the words , yeah , OK . Well , you said

in some of the words too . But what

from our point of view what happened

with your particular uh uh harness is

everything was fine when everybody left

the the the uh MSOB OK ? we got when

you got into the spacecraft right after

you got apparently when you were

getting cinched down somehow , uh ,

because we had about 3 minutes or so

after you were in the in the couch of

good data on you , then we began to get

erratic data . It began to wander the

baseline began to wander all over the

place . Uh , that continued to get

worse and worse , and pretty soon it

was going just full scale , which was

totally unreadable . So the question

was , OK , it was a question about

hatch closure at that point in time .

We , uh , decided right , right then I

said , well , hell , we're gonna go ,

we're gonna go without that because I'm

sure it's a sensor , and the only way

to get at it anyway if you , we asked

you then to try and press on those

things . If that wouldn't do it , if

that wouldn't reseed it , uh , then the ,

the first opportunity would be when we

got you actually in flight . Now we

don't know why , but it came back . It

was gone still , uh , when you went

over Australia as you came back up on

the states magically , there we had

data , and we went back to the MSOB

from the firing room to catch that pass ,

and there you were , whap , that was

beautiful , just as if nothing had ever

happened . And you hadn't done a thing

because then we asked them , you know ,

have you done anything ? Now , uh , as

we understand when you looked at that

sensor then that you did have some

material that had leaked out from under ,

underneath it , and you , and we

understand that you replaced that you

cleaned up and replaced that sensor ,

is that right ? We didn't replace the

sensor , no . OK , just to clean

cleaned it off , refilled it , put a

new sticky back on it , and put it back

on . Yeah , OK . That was the second

day of the flight though . Yeah , the

day , right , yeah , that , that was

the first time that we really , and

because we thought we'd get it out of

that we asked you to do that then

the way before you got into the , OK ,

and then you had another I also changed

the adapter , the CWG adapter , because

at one time on the flight they said my

comm wasn't very good . Yeah , your

comm was terrible , right ? We had a

spare adapter . Uh , so we changed that .

know , but . That was pretty early too .

Uh , exactly when that was , I don't

I think it was the first day . Yeah , I

think it was the first day . Uh , uh ,

well , that was the Lord . That

launch problem because , of course , uh .

wouldn't have anything to do with the

No . And we had a , we had a , uh ,

respiration on you . You can see

respiration , but we didn't have the .

That's good . Yeah , yeah , but we

didn't have an ECG . That's very

reassuring to me . That's right . Good .

Yeah , can you correlate the

reappearance of your EKG signal with

any flight plane activity that you

might have been doing ? I sure can .

I'm just as mystified about that as you

suit and everything . It happened you

were . I tried to press it through the

can't feel anything through the suit .

Well , you were free then though . You

one hour and 30 minutes GET . I don't

had your helmet and gloves off . It was

know if that rings any bells to you .

Helmets and gloves are off at that time

and we're moving around with the post

insertion checklist and there's some

movement in the couch , so I dive in

and do that sort of stuff . It's

and get some things and pull them out

probably , it's just gotta be that you

were probably just , it was in the

cinching down in the in the couch that

it probably loosened that edge of that

sensor somehow a little bit and uh I

don't know why . Right . Or put a crimp