NASA-UAP-D027 — Apollo 14 Debriefing (Continued), 1971

Most of my streaks appeared to be on

the periphery , and , uh , for the

first several days , I got the

impression that this , this direction

was predominant . Later on , it

appeared that I don't think I could get

that , that good a pattern , but that

was my first impression for the first

couple of days . The uh next question

is , uh , was there any apparent

direction of propagation and could you

tell it was coming from one side to the

other or was it just a . A flash .

Several times you did say from the left

to the right or something like that .

Tried to correlate it , but in my case

I couldn't really correlate a pattern

out of it . Yeah , I would think that

the time period in which we tried to

report them streak by streak , flash by

flash was representative . And , uh ,

it was my feeling that it was generally

random during that time period and , uh ,

Therefore , generally random throughout

the time that we were noticing them .

No , I meant , could you detect that it

was moving from one side to the other .

It was , it was moving in a specific ,

a specific , a specific flash . Yes ,

yes , but you could see it as it

traveled from one side to the other .

Yes , you really think we tried to

did report it . That's the way puzzling

report it that way , didn't you ? You

is because it happens , it has to be

very fast , you know . Isn't that

question kind of redundant then ? I

don't believe you . I .

Was there some character to these

flashes that had some , some aspect of

direction ? I mean , were they all the

same rod shaped or were they , did they

have a tail on them ? Well , what I saw ,

what I reported as a streak was simply

that . Uh , now , maybe the way we

determined the direction subconsciously

was that it was a ball of light moving

in a direction leaving a tail , but I

don't , I can't say that for sure . All

I reported was a streak , and I had the

impression of it moving from one

direction to the other , and I reported

that direction , and I , I can't

clarify it much more than that . Maybe ,

maybe while you're asking a question ,

we just tell the lights . I think they

just the idea is to try to see whether

can see this in the darkened room , but

this is what you saw or similar to it .

I think you need to light up . Well ,

can you see anything ? Yeah , except

that's what it looked like , except it

was traveling . In other words , uh ,

it started out and it definitely

progressed across the field of view

direction of motion per individual . We

did that right , yeah , except you're

not traveling . It was traveling . You

saw it . I never did see two

simultaneously either . Neither do I .

You have two streaks in that . I never

saw that . The , uh ,

at one time you said you saw a

semicolon-shaped thing . So what a

semicolon shaped object . This was in

the 1st , 1st report . Before the

I never did . I don't if I reported it ,

that's what I saw , but I don't

remember it . Did you see anything that

looked like this ? All I can say is

whatever was reported is what I saw .

No , I , you know , we , we discussed

the various shapes prior to flight ,

and I concentrated pretty hard on

trying to , trying to see the shapes ,

and I think as I reported , no , it was

either a streak and just a rather

simple streak or it was a , a flash and

rather a simple flash , nothing too

exotic about it , and on .

A more rare one would be maybe just

a pinpoint of light for an instant

rather than get the idea of a of a

flash . There would just be a pinpoint

for a second and it would be gone , but

that was , that was more rare than the

other two . By by a flash you mean a

meant , you know , like watching an

distributed sort of thing . Yeah , I

explosion , you know , just a ball

versus just a , just a steady dot , yes .

Was it , was it like this at all ? Can

you see that ? No . Likely this

one this . I

see . Can't say it .

We're not getting any lighting . I

don't think it's lighting . Oh , there ,

there was something just as you turned

it there . OK , I can see

that . You mean multiple , uh , well ,

This one . OK , that , that to me would

be the pinpoint that , that I'm

describing . The , uh , the , the

eruption or the , the nova as we call

them , would be more of an explosion .

Yeah . How about this ? Yeah , yeah .

Were there more dots than that ? Well ,

you've got a very , very bright center

and a diffused edge . I would say that ,

uh , the impression I had was you would

have a , an area like that indicating a

blow up , but the center wasn't

predominantly that bright . But

that's getting closer to what we would

call what I would refer to as a nova or

a or a flash . It's not as bright as

what I call a nova . Yeah . Ed , was

your Nova , an explosion like this or a

discrete flag flash ? No , it was , uh ,

what I call a nova was , was more of a ,

a blob that seemed to start with that

and kind of expand , more diffused ,

yeah , and more diffused as , as the

time went on . But brighter than that ,

brighter than that , yes , that's what

I about what I'd call a flash or a star .

Uh , here , here again , you've got too

much contrast between the center and

the , uh , diffused area there though .

That's also your time frame that you're

flashing , that's too long . It was

faster than that . But am I right , Ed ,

from what you just said that that when

you said flash you really meant a star

and not a , not a , not what you just

described ? I think I almost tended to

use flash and star interchangeably .

That's not true for you . No , uh ,

when I flash , Nova to me were

essentially the same thing . The only

distinction I make is the , the

pinpoint versus an explosion . Uh-huh .

OK , I think what Stu was calling a , a

pinpoint was about what I'd call a star

or a flash , and a Nova to me was a

much bigger , brighter thing . OK , I

got a couple of quick ones . First of

all , the cabin lighting , uh , exactly

was it completely dark or were there

some instrument lights still on ?

Absolutely . Absolutely . OK . Wait a

minute . Well , there is , you're

talking about the time period that we

ran this , uh , quantitative report ,

right ? Right , right . So completely

dark . OK . And , uh , did you have

your eyes closed most of the time or

were they open in the dark cabin ? Mine

we had gold . I had gold even though we

had the window shades on when we'd roll

around so the sun would hit some of the

windows , there'd be some light seepage

of time . So that during that time

around and we were aware of that ahead

period we , at least I made an attempt

to keep my eyes closed , open otherwise ,

and of course we closed our eyes when

they flipped his flashlight on . But

generally speaking , eyes were open .

No , mine , mine was , uh , almost

closed all the time . I was floating

down the corner of the LED , but I , I

kept my eyes closed because , uh , I

didn't know when we might roll into the

sun and I didn't want to pick up any

light at all . OK , the next question

on the flashlight was , uh , when you

shined it in your eyes , what was the

approximate duration in each eye ?

About how many seconds ? Well , I just

kind of moved it across for 5 seconds

or so , 5 or 6 seconds . It hurt . It

was very frightening . And uh next

question on uh still your orientation

in the LAB uh you said you were looking

toward plus X is , uh , will you ?

Across . I was , uh , generally , you

know , how you , you have the three

couches , and , uh , plus X is , uh , I

was oriented this way with my head

looking face up , uh , down in this

corner . So your head was in the same

direction as it would be if you were on

the couch , just rotated . Yes , that's

it . OK . And uh the next question is ,

uh , in almost every case you did

report that it was in one eye or the

other . I believe there was one

incident where you had , uh , both eyes .

And my question is , uh , uh , it may

be somewhat redundant , but , uh , are

you absolutely certain that you could

distinguish that it was one eye as

opposed to , uh . Yeah , I felt I was

getting more on the left than the right

for some reason . Well , in fact , in

fact , you're all heavily biased

towards the right on the , on the one

on your reports , really , very heavily ,

like , like 3 or 4 to 1 . I would have

sworn that I was biased to the left .

You have 1212 right and 6 . Left and

you had 10 right and 4 left and uh of

the ones you reported , you had 6 right

and 2 left and the rest were no reports

of both eyes . It was all very heavily

by the right eye . That's very

surprising . No , well , you know ,

while we're talking about that , I , it

seems to me that uh . I would get a

flash or a streak or whatever the

phenomenon or whatever the shape was

simultaneous with somebody else

reporting . That's the next question .

We , uh , uh , there were 3 from

listening to the tapes , 3 events and

it occurred in , in cases where , uh ,

different pairs were involved , uh ,

which were coincidences where I think

in one case , uh , uh . Ed ,

you said , uh , flash , and then Al ,

you said simultaneous with him . I had

a flash in the whole right eye . Now my

question would be , uh , when you ,

when it was simultaneous , was it after

he began speaking , or was it in fact ,

uh , was his words good enough for you

to , to have been a mark on your flash ?

Well , certainly within a fraction of a

second , I think it was simultaneous .

Yeah , the couple of times it happened

to me , it was his mark or whoever's

mark it was was good enough . Yeah , OK ,

same here . And , uh , then the next

question is , uh , earlier before the

session and when you were describing

some of the subjective observations you

mentioned the , uh , halos that you'd

seen that you'd see a flash followed by ,

uh , and we finally got to take his

halo off and put it away .

The uh excuse me , I'm sorry . Now ,

the , uh , uh , the after effects ,

were they , were they present most of

the time ? Did you see , did you have ,

uh , cognizance of , of a spike and

then a sort of a glow afterwards ? Only

on what I call the nova or the

supernova . Is

that true for you to do ? I didn't

really noticed a halo effect myself . I ,

I guess I'm not sure what , what we're

calling the , the , the halo effect .

You mean a , a diffused , uh ,

brightness , more , more like an

afterglow than halo . Did , did I call

any of those ? I sure don't remember it .

No , I think it described it . Yeah , I ,

I don't think I saw any of those . OK .

And uh oh the other question we had was

uh uh do you remember making any

observations in lunar orbit ? Uh , it's

not , I know there were no formal

periods , but , uh , you know , I

thought about that on the way back ,

and , uh , I was , I was so tired that

night that I , I really don't remember

seeing any flashes , but I , I didn't

look for any either . So I , I guess

the question would be , I , I

consciously did not see any , but . I

sure , that's , I , I , I wouldn't take

that as a data point . OK , that's fine .

Yeah . And then , uh , the final

question that I have is , uh , after

our formal session , uh , that was on ,

what was it about 191 GET , uh , you

then had a sleep period later on . Do

you remember whether you saw any during

that period closer in ? It's

significant whether you're inside the

magneto pole or not . I don't

consciously recall , but I don't really

recall that there was any night except

on the lunar surface that I didn't . At

some time or another see some . You ,

you definitely , you didn't see any on

the lunar surface ? I just , no , I

don't remember about the lunar surface .

There was precious little sleep that

night anyhow , so . OK , well that's

set all the questions on here . We

douse the lights for a minute , get ,

uh , while , while you're dousing a lot ,

I have one additional question . Did

you get the impression that light

flashes could have been within the

cabin or definitely within your eye ?

Definitely within the eye . OK . The ,

uh , I wanna get some idea about

orientation and , uh , and length of

the streets . Did you ever see anything

that No , I never did .

The , uh , you , you use the uh

terminology of uh 6 o'clock or hours of

the clock . Does that mean to you , uh ,

when you say 6 o'clock to the center ,

about how long the streak is that ?

That's a hard question to answer . Uh ,

if you are visualizing uh something

about um . Oh , about the arm's

length away from you . How long would

you say your longest streak was ? That

long ? Can you see my fingers ? I'll

show them . Let me describe it a

different way . Give you , it appeared

to me that the things . Uh , I would

say we're 3 or 4 inches away from my ,

my plane , whatever that means , and

we're a couple of inches long . Tell us

what it means a couple inches long and

3 or 4 inches in front of you and it ,

uh , it looked like this . Too

long for me .

See that one up above ? The one up

above looks better . How about this ?

Uh , probably fairly close . Yeah , I'd

say that's probably about as close as

the longest one . Let's see , I'm not

sure what our , what our scale is here .

I , I'd rather say that if I , if I'd

consider whatever it may be , but the

field of view of , say , my right eye

and take a radius of that , that I'd

put a streak at , uh , of about , uh ,

a half the radius would be the average

streak . Half or a little longer .

Um , OK , uh , you think , is there any

way that you can , you can associate

this length of straight to what you

said too ? The monitor is charging or

can yous . Well , it would depend on

how big a circle I want to draw from my

field of view . I , I , yeah , I saw

streaks , uh , that long because uh .

Because with my eyes closed , I , I

imagine a rather big field of view here

in my eye . So , uh , yeah , I'd , I'd

see , I'd see streaks that long . And

one time you said you saw streaks

oriented in a certain direction . Do

you remember that ? The way you had it ,

bring it on up that way . And Ed , what

about you ? Well , I think I had them

from several directions and I reported

them as moving from one direction to

the other at that time . There were

several of them though . How about , uh ,

any particular direction up and down ,

left and right ? I didn't notice any ,

any preferred orientation . And here

again , I think I try to express the ,

the , uh , the length of the arc of the

flash in terms of the , of the

peripheral field and if you're talking

about a . A horizontal peripheral field

as being somewhere in the vicinity of

150 to 160 degrees , then in some , in

some cases the light flashes would go

across as much as 50 or 60 degrees of

that . Yeah , that's interesting . Were

the light flashes broken in the center ?

In some cases they were . In some cases

I had the feeling it was two dots , one

immediately following the other ,

giving the impression of right to left

or top to bottom or bottom to top or .

The point is , you see that the retina

is so curved that if you draw a

straight line , you can't get too long ,

long , you shouldn't be able to get too

long a streak without breaking out of

plane of the retina because it's shaped

the retina again , you know , in the

like that , but it has some depth ,

does it not ? Had it been any longer

than that , uh , it just is , is on the

retina . Can't hear that through a

couple of portions . Can't hear you .

It should not have been in any longer

than what I showed you if you just went

through the retina as one track , but

if it went through a couple of eyes ,

long streak . That's why we're

then you'd have the impression of a

interested in the character . I have

one more about the cloud that you saw .

This is a new phenomenon which we

hadn't expected . Can you describe this

lightning behind the cloud ? Then I

think it occurred . I reported it a

couple of times , and it appeared , as

I recall , to be down low on one eye or

the other , and it was just a , a

diffuse lighting . Any color ?

White , silver . If you were out in the

country and looking at the horizon and

there was lightning behind a cloud ,

was it like that ? Except generally if

you do that you can see a streak behind

the cloud . This , there was no streak .

It was just a diffuse lighting

simulators when they get out . We , we

have a little gizmo that'll simulate

you get , get , when you get out of the ,

that sort of phosphene when you , when

out of , out of quarantine , maybe have

a look at it . I have one last attempt

to try to do the cloud here . You douse

the lights a minute . Good job .

Oh yeah , they still we . Was it

anything like that ? I didn't see it .

It's pretty cloudy , right ? They have

not darkened that , but I still don't

see it . Um , I haven't seen anything

on it yet . OK . I'll get it . OK . But

what you're trying to describe is just

what we used to call heat lightning as

a . Yeah . As a kid . Uh yeah , it's a

general , uh , diffused light . Yeah .

You didn't see the relief of the cloud ,

did you ? Uh , no , not necessarily ,

no . It's just a , just a blob of light .

The um one final question we

did voice up to your question about um

whether you you noticed any other uh

sensations besides flashes , which was

the reason for asking that was that if

it was uh you know did you feel any

tingling or or find yourself twitching

or or hear anything . And the reason

for that is that if it is an

interaction back in the brain , then

then your other senses are just about

maybe you should feel something , but

as sensitive as your visual sense and

you never noticed that it didn't notice

it . Didn't notice any sensation , but

there's there's two things to think

about . Did you notice your , your

thumb itching or your lips twitching ?

In particular , in particular . No ,

never looked for it either . Well ,

it's , you know , these are suggestive

questions and the fact that you say no

is , uh , significant . You can press

on with different parts of the anatomy

and you might get a yes , but .

Anything to do with . Well , those are .

sections for . I , I , I , you know ,

Those are the two biggest cross

if there's something significant about

your thumbs or your lips , uh , you

ought , maybe you should warn , uh ,

people to look for that , uh , because ,

uh , I don't know , unless it's going

to be so obvious that , that , if you

would . Are you seeing itch all over ?

Well , sometimes you might think you

should be , feel very comfortable . OK ,

we , we're in . Thanks very

much . So I think um I think I said to

Ed yesterday that you really did

provide a an enormously improved

metadata on this phenomenon that we've

had in any previous flights , that's

great . Well , I would , I would add

this to that , I think that's the way

you really have to go is to take a

definite period , set it aside and do

it because otherwise it's so random and

uh so many other things going through

your mind that uh . It's the only way

you gaining quantitative , however ,

you , you did a remarkable job of

concentrating on it for that length of

time . Uh , do you , do you , uh , feel

that that was being unreasonable to ask

you to do that without you going to

it's a pretty boring thing to do ,

sleep or something like that ? No ,

you're sitting there lying watching

them . You think we , you know , we

should be , uh , that we're that in

planning for , for doing this sort of

be , uh , we shouldn't try and do much

thing on future missions that we should

more than we try to , to , to get you

to do because it's just too much just

to sit there lying there trying to

Well , if you can find a time period

concentrate for that length of time .

during the flight when , uh , when they

have , when the kids don't have

anything else to do , I think it's

reasonable to suggest that , yeah .

Uh-huh . I don't think I would do it ,

uh , before a sleep period or when

they're tired or they'll go to sleep on

you . Yeah , you know , I think along

if you , you know , talk a little bit

that line , Phil , by the time you've ,

pre-flight like we did , then , uh ,

and then you know the phenomena is

there because , you know , your first

sleep period or the first time you get

the spacecraft dark and close your eyes ,

you're going to see flashes and , uh ,

so then that , you know , sort of

sparks your curiosity a little more and

and , and count them , well , I think

then when they say let's settle down

you're agreeable to it . Um . You OK ?

One other comment on that , and I'm not

even sure that it's related , but

I really think that this is just a

general impression that if I would look

at look at the glove or the wristwatch

or something like that and then close

my eyes again , I'd almost always see a

flash , and I tried then to correlate

looking at say a crack through the .

Through the window shade or looking at

my watch or something and then closing

my eyes and I really came to the

impression that the 2 may have been

correlated , but I never really looked

at it enough to To say that for sure ,

but I think there was a correlation

between seeing a light or something

like this and then closing your eyes ,

and pretty soon you'd pick up that

flash . That's , that's an important

observation . If the action is directly

in the bipore or the retina cells , the

outer segment , you might expect it to

behave the way electrical phosphenes do

rather than than just from light ,

which takes dark adaption . What do you

think about that , Ed ? I'm not quite

sure what your point is . I was going

to make the comment that , uh , with

respect to the flashes . Putting the

flashlight in my eyes did not seem to

destroy my dark adaptation . Uh , now

what that means I don't know . Did you

do like that ? Yeah , that slow or that

fast ? Yeah , for some time . You

certainly wiped out some of the nerves .

I wiped out something . I wiped it all

out . I'm not sure that's true , Chuck .

How , how long did you do it ? You

should wipe it all out . Uh , oh , a

couple of minutes , 1 minute , 1 minute

back and forth like this , about 5

seconds per track something like that .

Yeah , hey , hey , you know , I , I

know what you're saying though is that

the reason you think you didn't knock

it all out is because you can still see

saying ? Well , the cockpit looked

the flashes . Is that what you're

different . Remember , I was doing this

eyes open and , uh , it seemed like .

With just what I consider dark

adaptation that I was more dark

adapted . Uh , that I dark adapted much

sooner after doing that than I did when

we started the experiment . Yeah , you

would , I , yeah , yeah , sure , yeah ,

that you would do because you wipe out

the cubs less with that just with the

flashing you do with the tungsten light

like to make sure on this dark

or something else . Hey , I'd , I'd

adaptation now I know during the , uh ,

during the formal , uh , 1 hour or 40

minutes , whatever it was that Ed was

was shining the light , but I don't

know whether you picked it up on air to

ground or not , but I had done that

periods and there's there's just , you

prior to that during one of the sleep

do not have to be dark adapted to see

these beau . I think that's a

conclusion from what Ed's . That's a

very significant data point because it

almost certainly proves that it's not a

real light in your eye generated in

Yeah , but why did it take us so long

your eye . It's actually an interaction .

when we started the experiment before

we saw anything ? It was quite a while .

And yet when I wiped the light across

my eyes within 30 or 40 seconds , there

they were again . 17 minutes . Pardon ,

17 minutes . Yeah , but when I did it

with the flashlight within 30 or 40

seconds they were right there again .

You said that they were fainter . They

previous previous times that you'd

seemed fainter than they had on

observed them , and there definitely is

a threshold effect of some sort because

you saw twice as many during that

period as the other two did . And I

think maybe it's just my guess was when

I , when you didn't see them and then

you started to see them regularly , was

that it was just that they are fainter ,

they seem fainter than you expected ,

and so it took you a while to sort of

get your attention down to to to to

fainter ones than what you were looking

for . Well , that may be that may be

the case , except they did indeed

appear fainter in the beginning . And

it wasn't a matter of of looking for

fainter objects . They were brighter

after , after a while . And for you ,

Al , and they didn't diminish in

brightness when I did the flashlight

across my eyes . They were still just

as bright 30 seconds later as they had

been before I used the flashlight . And

that's why I'm questioning the dark

adaptation bit . I . Either I didn't

wipe the dark adaptation out , or there

is something related to dark adaptation

that influences the phenomenon .

I don't understand it . It doesn't make

sense . That doggone time period that

we did it and and the few flashes we

saw was very surprising to me , and ,

and we talked about this and we

commented on it at the time . Boy , it

seemed like , you know , you'd wake up

during a sleep period . And they were

all over the place . Now here again ,

maybe I'd lose track of time , you know ,

you're laying there in the dark cabin

and maybe it was longer than what I

thought , but it just seemed like that ,

you know , there's abundance of flashes ,

and I was amazed when it took 17

minutes to see a flash . I thought any

you were going to and concentrate on it ,

time that you wanted to close your eyes

you were going to , you were going to

see these things . That's why I suggest

that you really ought to set a time

period aside because it is such a

random function as far as I'm concerned

that . To try to do it , uh , on a

non-quantitative basis is off the top .

plus the fact that I think that , uh ,

That each individual is going to report

at different , uh , levels of activity

too . I had a feeling there was maybe

some little faint things that I would

sort of see that I didn't want to talk

about because I couldn't define them as

a flash . Yeah , I had those too . So ,

good idea to do it this way because

uh I , I think , I think also it's a

you're subjective , Your impression is

not necessarily right . Like you felt

that you were , you saw more of them in

that wasn't true . It was wrong . So we

your left eye than your right , and

need to get the data real time . When

you go to sleep at night , do you see

any of these things ? Most people do

see something as they're going to sleep

in a darkened room . They can't get to

sleep right away down here . Uh , I

think everybody does . I don't know .

Yeah , you , you , you got lights

blinking around , you know , in your

eyes if you get in a real dark room

occasionally , but , uh , and , and

maybe it's because we've never really

particular type of phenomenon . These

concentrated on looking for this

phenomena that you saw were different

from the ones that you , you see once

in a while . Oh , definitely . It's a

lot more frequent . Yeah . No question

about that . How about in brightness ?

About what ? Right . It's hard to say .

Yeah , I guess we'll , I'll , I'll make

a note to , to , to see if I see any of

those , you know , uh , from here on ,

uh , but I certainly haven't since

we've been back , uh , but here

again , and , and Ed mentioned this ,

and I , and I agree with him , but it's

flashes you see when you wake up in the

another subjective thing that the

middle of the night as a whole appear

to be brighter than the flashes as a

whole during that experiment that we

did . During the during the day . And ,

and I'm like , I , I was a little

reluctant to call anything except a

very positive flash during that during

that time frame . You know , I wanted

to make really sure that that was

indeed . A mark at the time that I

called it , but those that you saw

during the middle of the night appeared

to be brighter and like I say ,

appeared to be more of them . But here

again , you know , you may lay there

for an hour and you think it's 55 , 10

minutes or something . I don't know .

Maybe , maybe you lose track of the

time , but It's a subjective thing . It

saw one blue flash . Did anyone else

see color ? No . Uh , wait a minute .

No , that wasn't blue . It was a , a

silver . A blue white sort of like a

blue diamond , you say like a blue

diamond was that the brightest that you

saw ? I don't recall it was the

brightest , no . Ha , has , has anybody

been hit in the head and seen stars you

were these anything like that ? Yeah ,

I think I'm more concentrating on the

pain . When

you , when you go to bed tonight , if

you in a dark room , if you just

knuckle your eyeballs , you should see

flashes , and it might be worth trying

that to see whether they look like the

same sort of , we cry a lot in here .

OK , no , I'll say , you know , if you

can get the next cruises interested ,

uh , Phil , you know it makes a great

topic of conversation , and , you know ,

during the flight you've got nothing

else to talk about . You can talk about

light flashes , so you know I think if

you get the get the crew's curiosity

aroused , boy , it's a good deal . Well ,

I think the , the pressure on the

subject which has built up is such that

there will be some formal experiment on

the way to go . OK .

Thanks very much . Thank you . Thank

you . We're all good . Now we'll ,

we'll keep back in touch with you and

let you know what we're gonna do with

do , how things are coming time wise

this other thing and what we're gonna

for the . for the for the tolling ,

you know , you know what the , the date

is , you know what the time is now ? 0

7:31 on Saturday the . Oh .

Is it a release time you mean ? Yeah .

Work on springing this early , Chuck .

Somebody said that , uh , 21 days ended

up on Saturday morning , yeah . Yeah .

I would've been led to believe

otherwise , Chuck . In the

debriefing plan , it says 0800 the 26th

on Friday . Deke says we get out , uh ,

uh , Friday morning . Yeah , he , he

called yesterday . Yeah , he called me

last night . He says , How the hell did

we ever get this number in here ? I

number , but well , the radiation

said , I don't know where you got that

people are here . We're talking about

release and all that kind of business .

to get total body counts ?

Can we get a hack on when they're going